PC APPROVED Minutes 02-26-15 APPROVED Minutes
Spokane Valley Planning Commission
Council Chambers—City Hall,
February 26,2015
Chairman Stoy called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. Commissioners, staff and audience stood for the
pledge of allegiance. Ms.Horton took roll and the following members and staff were present:
Kevin Anderson Lori Barlow, Senior Planner
Heather Graham Cary Driskell, City Attorney
Tim Kelley Micki Harnois, Planner
Mike Phillips
Susan Scott
Joe Stoy
Sam Wood Cari Hinshaw, Office Assistant
Deanna Horton, Secretary of the Commission
Commissioner Anderson moved to approve the February 26, 2015 amended agenda as presented. Motion
passed with a seven to zero vote.
Commissioner Anderson moved to accept the February 12, 2015 minutes as presented Commissioner
Anderson noted on page four of six, second paragraph, "He did not know what the past zoning for the
area was, but because we are considering a Comprehensive Plan amendment and not a code text
amendment, he could support the change," The word 'not' needs to be inserted between `could' and
`support'. Having no other discussion, the chair called for the vote to approve the minutes as amended.
The vote was seven to zero.
COMMISSION REPORTS: Commissioners Graham and Scott reported they attended the Planning
Short Course which was presented by the WA Dept. of Commerce and hosted by the City.
ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT: Senior Planner Lori Barlow thanked the Commissioners who attended
the Planning Short Course and reported the City would be working on providing additional training for
the Planning Commission. Ms. Barlow reminded the Commissioners of the Comprehensive Plan Update
`Report Back' meeting would be March 4, 2015,at 6:00 p.m. at CenterPlace.
PUBLIC COMMENT: There was no public comment.
COMMISSION BUSINESS:
Public Hearing for CTA-2015-0001 A proposed amendment to Spokane Valley Municipal Code
(SVMC) 19.40.150 (C)Animal raising and keeping
Chair Stoy opened the public hearing at 6:12 p.m. Planner Micki Harnois reported the proposed
amendment to SVMC 19.4.150(C) Animal raising and keeping is to clean up some language making
it consistent with other parts of the code (ex: shall instead of must), to remove nutria as an animal
which is allowed to be kept and changing the regulations for hobby beekeeping. Ms. Harnois stated a
nutria, also known as a Coypu or a river rat, is classified as an invasive aquatic animal species and it
is prohibited to keep them in this state. Currently the code also allows for the keeping of nutria, so
this needed to be struck from the City's code.
Ms. Harnois stated currently the SVMC allows a maximum of 25 hives only on lots 40,000 square
feet or larger. The proposed language would allow one hive per 4,356 square feet of gross lot area.
Beehives would need to be located a minimum of five feet from side and rear property lines and
twenty feet from front or flanking street property lines. Additionally a six-foot high flyaway barrier,
which would force the bees to fly up and away from the neighbor's property would need to be located
next to the hives and an adequate supply of water shall be located close by the hives.
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Commissioner Anderson questioned if the word `adequate' was the correct word to use for the water
supply. It was determined it was not necessary to have a continuous or constant running supply of
water but just water all the time in the same place close by for the bees to be able to get to so they
don't go looking for it on other people's property. Commissioner Graham asked about the state
certification. It was discussed when there are state requirements, it is generally felt putting those
same requirements in the SVMC is redundant. The City only has one code enforcement officer and
trying to enforce a state requirement would be burdensome on the workload. Commissioner Wood
asked if dense vegetation suggested as a flyaway barrier would be good enough, and how dense it
would need to be. It was discussed that bees do not fly through things, such as vegetation or fences.
Joan Nolan, 1422 S. Bowdish: Ms. Nolan said she has lived at this address for 46 years and for 40
of those years there have hives of bees on the property. She asked if the Commissioners had any
information regarding the certification of bee keepers. Inland Empire Beekeepers Association
(IEBA)does put on classes. The students have an opportunity to be certified. This means, along with
the registration fee they paid for the class, the Washington State Bee Keepers Association (WSBA)
test for becoming a certified apprentice. There are three levels of bee keeping, apprentice,
journeyman and master beekeeping. In the Spokane City ordinance it is required a beekeeper be
certified. It means they have taken the test, provided to the IEBA by the WSBA,they have taken the
test, passed it and received a certificate. It means the beekeeper has taken a class and learned how to
be a responsible beekeeper, so they are not an annoyance to their neighbor. Years ago when she took
her first class, which Micki had used, 'out of sight, out of mind.' Her instructor said 'keep your bees
out of sight, out of mind.' Because too often people didn't know or have information about honey
bees. Anything with a pair of wings that was a nuisance, it was the unfortunate beekeeper who took
the blame for it, so we kept them out of sight. Now, what I would like to suggest is the advantage of
being certified is from a beekeeper's perspective it is protection for us, because then if there is a
frivolous complaint about yellow jackets, horse flies or whatever, we can say `no it is not the honey
bee, I am responsible and I have certificate. She said it may be an over simplification but it is a valid
reason for having the bee keepers under this ordinance be certified as part of the requirement.
Commissioner Stoy asked her if the levels of certification were based on the number of hives a person
had. Ms.Nolan said the level of certification had nothing to do with the number of hives a beekeeper
had. The degree of knowledge, the expertise and experience the beekeeper has, not the number of
hives. The level of study, the number of years they have been a beekeeper and the requirements to
meet each level. Which includes teaching beekeeping in the schools and so on. Commissioner
Anderson asked if IEBA, had a membership fee, she clarified dues., which are $5.00 per year. Mr.
Anderson asked if the IEBA was administering a test for the WSBA and how much the test was. Ms.
Nolan answered the test was $15.00. He confirmed there were three separate tests, one for each level.
He also confirmed the city of Spokane requires `this' (certified beekeepers). Mr. Anderson asked if
she was aware of any other cities which required certification of beekeepers, she offered the city of
Colville also requires certification. Ms. Barlow interjected in the research Ms. Harnois had
performed it was not uncommon for certification to be required but it was not always required. Ms.
Nolan said rather than looking at it from catching people from wrong doing or always looking for
someone who is not doing it correctly, look at it from the perspective of the beekeeper. They want to
be certified, they want to be good neighbors and have bees. She thinks people are more and more
aware of the value of a honey bee with their garden and crops. As they are other people are becoming
protective of the honey bee as well. Commissioner Graham asked Ms. Nolan if she could identify,
from the picture offered (which was from a presentation at the last Planning Commission meeting),
that the 'box' was one hive, a colony, one family lives in this, Ms. Nolan said. The number is
determined by the time of the year, the strength if the hive, the top boxes are where the honey supers
are put, as the honey flow is on more boxes are added so bees can store honey. Wintertime that is
taken down to two boxes. Commissioner Stoy asked how many bees are in a typical hive, he did
know there was one queen. Ms. Nolan turned to the audience for guidance, and a voice started to
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comment but it was explained to him he would not be able to do that. 70-90,000 are the average in a
year. Mr. Stoy asked if the bees died off. Ms. Nolan said yes, they work themselves to death. The
workers make trips back and forth between the nectar source and the hive and live maybe 3-4 weeks.
In the mean time the queen is laying the eggs, raising the brood,to replace those workers. In the fall,
the bees don't have the nectar source, they depend on the stores of honey the beekeeper has left them,
typically 80-90 pounds of honey to get them through the winter. The queen diminishes the laying of
eggs,the numbers go down. The bees don't hibernate,they form a cluster.,eating their food and form
a cluster to maintain warmth. They circle from the inside bees to the out keeping the queen in the
center, the center of the cluster maintains about 90 degrees through the winter, regardless of the
temperatures outside. Commissioner Wood clarified Ms. Nolan was supporting the beekeepers be
certified as part of the code. She said `they' were a self governing organization. She said they were
all about the good of the bee. If you have beekeepers, who are not doing right by their bees, by
supplying water or treating them for diseases, it affects us all. She said, there are no fences around
the bees,they can travel, mix and mingle, and carry diseases. Mr. Wood asked her what position she
held in the IEBA. She said she did not hold an position in the IEBA, but she was a master gardener.
She said she was a liaison between the WSU extension and the IEBA. Commissioner Stoy asked
about African bees and could it affect the local honey bee. She said in this area, no. The reason for
that is because, it was that was a mistake, it was someone being irresponsible, where the bloodline of
that bee was released and bred with other local bees in the south. From her understanding the
Africanized bee does not know how to form a cluster. So we are somewhat protected in the north
area by our cold weather. She knows they have them in Texas and the warmer climates even in
southern California, they have had them there. There are some breeding issues. Here as she
mentioned at about 50 degrees, and these days are perfect for seeing that. The honey bees are out in
doing cleansing flights, that means they won't defecate in the hive, they are now looking for water,
which I have out, all responsible beekeepers do. Come about 4-5:00 those bees take a nose dive into
that hive, 50 degrees and lower and they are right back in that cluster to maintain that warmth.
Africanized bees have not learned to do that, they don't have that trait built into their system, they
can't survive the cold temperatures. Commissioner Scott asked how long the flyaway barrier needed
to be. Ms. Nolan said it just needed to be right by the hive, right by the entrance,just so it deflects
them going up. Ms. Scott confirmed there would be no need to specify a length of the flyaway
barrier. Ms. Nolan said one thing she would like to clarify and it had something to do with water
being necessary for pollination, water is also used for a cooling system. They will put water in the
hive and fan their wings to keep the air flow in the hive, and water is very important for that.
Commissioner Wood asked how she maintains the water for her bees. She said she carries the water.
She said she does have chickens so she is carrying water to them everyday. She said every beekeeper
has a different method of watering, her favorite birdbaths or pans with lava rock in it. She makes sure
to add water to them. She said they teach their students that bees are creatures of habit. Once they
find a water source,they will return to that source,they are difficult to retrain. Mr. Wood asked if the
water needed to be fed continually by some source. She said it did not need to be a leaky faucet, it
just needed to be filled regularly. She said you have to be careful of evaporation, she said she has
about seven sources for her bees.
Daren Mumau, 10916 E Connor Rd.,Valleyford, WA: Mr. Mumau said he was a member of the
IEBA, he happened to be president this year. He would touch a bit on what Joan has mentioned, she
had covered quite a bit of it for the Commission. He is in favor of having registration, because they
do teach to the state specifications, or the book which they receive from the state. It is one of the
things they like to do and promote, (something could not hear) have taught the steps to them and they
take the tests and pass them. Then if there is an issue, whoever has the issue, or the investigating
party, can say 'are you registered with the state.' Then if they at least have the apprenticeship they
have at least a knowledge of beekeeping. Couple of the things Joan mentioned was the flyaway, or
the bush or fence. If you get bees to come out and they will orient themselves to their hive,they will
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come out a few inches in front of that hives, they will orient to that hive, (something could not hear)
they will turn around and fly away from the hive, if you have something that is in the air that they
have to fly over, they will fly over, six feet,that will put them up in the air and they will continue that
way until they get there . (something could not hear) Then they will move down into their flowers
and gather their nectar and pollen. Africanized honey bees, not too likely in this area, because of the
cold, won't go anymore into that. The Commissioners asked about a bush and dense vegetation,they
will fly up and over, they don't like to fly through, in and out. You have heard of the preverbal
beeline, that is what it is. Again, we follow the state regulations as far as our little booklet that the
WSBA puts out, that is what we teach to. Also, there are other people who teach these classes,
(something could not hear) other organizations, people in Spokane County and around the immediate
area and they follow those guidelines also. A question was brought up about hives,(referring to the
picture shown earlier) normally it starts out with one box and a hive stand, you can continue adding
boxes as they grow. You will end up with roughly 60,000 bees in a normal two hive setup, or two
box set up. After that it grows as the nectar comes in the honey flow comes in. In a good year, lots of
rain, we will have lots of nectar, you could see that would have 3-4-5 boxes on top of a standard hive.
But the (something could not hear) as your honey flow stops. Commissioner Graham asked if as the
boxes and as they grow, did the bees stay down at the bottom. She said she was wondering about the
flyaway barrier needing to go up or down depending on the level of boxes. Mr. Mumau said there is
an entrance which is always at the bottom, and you have a top entrance but they would come out the
entrance they would still be at height and it would not be a problem. Ms. Graham said she had a
question about swarming is it predictable, is it avoidable and what do you do if you have a swarm.
Mr. Mumau said yes, yes, and call me. He said it is predictable. He said there are things that we
teach that you look for in a hive that as they build up, if they are getting too crowded, for instance
they will make a queen cell. They will think this,they are running out of room, so ok we will make a
queen cell, we will swarm roughly fifty percent of that hive, at the swarm level, and go off into a tree
or a bush and hopefully a beekeeper is called then to pick those up and free bees. You watch for this
as a trained beekeeper, you would observe, you would know what to observe. (something could not
hear). He said one of the things we teach, our philosophy of the IEBA is we give one day of intense
classroom. It is eight hours of nothing but bees. We have four field days after that, where we bring
hives in, and the students manipulate and work our hives. They see what the association hives are
doing then they in turn can go back and(something could not hear) look at their hives. We have a
mentor list, they can compare the association hive to what their hives are doing. They can call the
mentor and work close with them. It is a hands on teaching class we give. It is 10 tests of 10
questions per, and pass them to be able to obtain the certification. That way we know, they know and
you would know if they have passed that. Commissioner Anderson asked if the recommendation for
the flyaway barrier was in front of the hive instead of a six-foot fence around the yard as a flyaway
barrier. Mr. Mumau said it would be better if the flyaway barrier was close but honestly they are
going to leave the hive and if they have to go 60 feet and go up six feet,they are going to go up. Mr.
Anderson said he was looking for a simple definition. Commissioner Stoy asked if a cyclone fence
would work as a cyclone fence, or would a bee go through it. Mr. Mumau said he did not have an
answer for that. There was an answer from the audience which said never seen bees don't go chain
link fence, have them right by (something could not hear), always fly over. Commissioner Kelley
said he was going to ask a couple of basic questions. He wanted to know if honey bees stung. Mr.
Mumau said they do. Mr. Kelly then asked were attracted to things that are sweet like gum or if
someone is drinking a soda pop, Mr. Mumau said yes they were. Commissioner Kelley also asked
Mr. Mumau as a beekeeper, in your opinion, what do you feel the responsibilities are of the owner of
the beehive to the bees and the neighbors to able to enjoy their back yard. Mr. Kelley clarified
responsibilities and liabilities. Mr. Mumau said the responsibility is for them to keep (the bees)
alive(something could not hear) but also when you become, (something could not hear) when you
keep bees, it is something very special. There are people who do commercial beekeeping that do
beekeeping in a different way than we do, and they are not in this type of situation. We are talking
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about home owners and individuals and stuff like this. I will put it to you this way. You can have the
worst day at work, have your hives behind your garage, walk out there, and we teach
wearing(something could not hear) and the first thing you do is set your lunch bucket down and you
go back out, you open the top of the hive and everything is good, possibility. That being said
depending on the weather, they could be mean, they could be ornery and they could sting you. You
asked if they sting,yes they do but they will leave a stinger in you. All honey bees die upon stinging,
or shortly thereafter. So, when someone calls up and says I just got stung by a honeybee, one of the
first things we ask is where is the stinger in relationship to the sting. If they say, there was no stinger
or I stepped on it, and there was no stinger. It wasn't a honeybee that stung them, it was a yellow
jacket, wasp or a hornet or something to that effect. Honey bee stings one time and dies, yellow
jacket stings numerous times and acts like a sewing machine. It will sting, it will sting, it will sting.
Then it will fly away and sting you again. Ms. Barlow asked Mr. Mumau a follow up question
regarding swarming, if a beekeeper were aware that a colony were growing and getting ready to
establish another queen and another location, she assumed that would be the responsible part a
beekeeper would be observing and then creating another location for the bees. Mr. Mumau said if a
beekeeper thought the colony (something could not hear) going to swarm what they would do is to
manipulate the frames to make the hive smaller. Put it into another box, another hive, let it
(something could not hear) own queen and stop the swarming that way. Commissioner Scott asked if
they needed water in the winter time. Usually in the summer time, when they are flying, they need
the water source. If we orient them to a water source in front of their hives or around their hives they
will go to those constantly. If not and they find water someplace else,the neighbor's birdbath or dog
dish, if they can eliminate that for a few days or a week. The beekeeper, if he is notified, can make
sure his water is up to par and constant and continuous. He said they are trainable.
Jerry Tate, 8900 E Maringo Dr.: Mr. Tate stated his dad started Tate's Honey Farm in 1970. He
said we have been doing bees there forever. He said just before he came here he checked his
packaged bee list he is bringing in April 4th and 11th'he is bringing in approximately 900 packages of
bees. This is three pounds of bees, or approximately 10,000 bees in a wire cage and a new queen. He
thinks about 100 of them are going into the City. He said that is why we are really interested that
there is an ordinance for it. Mr. Tate said bootleg beekeeping is a big deal. The people who are
doing this, when we testified before the city(Spokane), it was a big deal for them. When we showed
them how many beekeepers they actually had in the city they were appalled. They never had any idea
that there were that many. Urban beekeeping is becoming a big deal. Mr. Tate said he was a past
president of the WSBA for five years. He also serves on the honey commission and helps to allocate
the money collected through the registrations fees. He also said he was a past president of the IEBA.
Under his tenure at the state they revised all fo the training materials which are being discussed here
today to be more compliant with current beekeeping practices and needs. You can count on that
people are going to be learning up to date information. Beekeeping is an extremely expensive hobby,
it isn't cheap. A package of bees costs about$125.00. A double brood set up, cost a beekeeper about
$169.00 to set that up just by itself, and beekeeping equipment will run bee suit could run them
another $150.00. You can see, (something could not hear) wants to be able to keep their bees and
they want to be keep them alive and they want to take care of them. They put a tot of money into it
and a lot fo time into learning how to do it. He said one of the things which was asked earlier and he
wanted to clarify and it got kind of skewed bees don't go into pop cans, food or anything like that.
If a kid says he swallowed something from a pop can, it was a yellow jacket or a hornet or something
like that. Bees do not drink pop. They will go to, an example, if you have an orchard and fruit falls
on the ground, bees might be sniffing round fruit sometimes. It is not their preferred thing they will
not bother if there is a nectar source somewhere else. Last year our largest honey production came
fromfrom urban beekeepers. He said we have a lady on the south hill who has four colonies and she
did over 125 pounds per colony. If you go to Deer Park, they average 15 pounds per colony. You
can see that the urban beekeepers are a big deal. There are a lot of pollination of flowers going on.
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He said he will get calls every week asking what kinds of flowers to plant in order to encourage the
bees population. He said in Spokane County there is a large population of Blue Orchard bees, which
are pretty common in this area. It is a small, solitary bee. There are a lot of people who are starting to
raise those also. They just tack a small block of wood to the side of the barn with a couple holes in it,
pretty soon they show up. They are not a large pollinator and they collect no honey. He said the state
guidelines had a major revision a few years ago and the new guidelines help to train beekeepers to be
better beekeepers. He said there are not a lot of feral hives in Spokane County or in the city. He said
old buildings and old trees tend to attract hives from all over. Last year was probably the largest
swarming year he had ever seen, in the last 15 years. He said since the advent of the mites, swarming
became a really small thing to worry about. Mr. Tate said swarming bees are the most docile bees
you could run into. He said it is kind of spooky to see 35,000 bee swarming around your head, they
will land on you but they have no intention of stinging you, they have loaded up their honey sacks
and they need to make it to the new location. That is what is going to feed them for the next
three or four days. They have a self-preservation thing going on with them. He said you could go
up to a swarm of bees like that and stick your hand in it and pull it out and they would never sting
you. He said I do it all the time, show little kids that and they are just flabbergasted, they are
extremely gentle.
He said there is a demarcation line across the United States which is monitored by the USDA which
watches where the African bee shows up and it is about half way up the California coast it just stops.
There are no African honey bees because of the weather conditions for the winter. They are notorious
for bootlegging on a semi and riding somewhere and getting out. They are usually pretty docile the
first year, it is the next year that they become hostile if they become scared. But up here we have
very little chance of Africanized honey bees. All the bees which are imported into Spokane come
from Northern California, not Southern California where the African honey bees are. He said he
expects in the month of April there will be about 2,500 new colonies established from bees being
brought into Spokane area this year, it is a big thing and people are putting a lot of money out for it.
Hopefully they are being good beekeepers. He said if someone calls his shop and complains about
somebody's bees, someone from the IEBA will go out and talk to the beekeeper. We try to self-
police ourselves. He said in the `city' we have hardly had any complaints since our new ordinance
went into effect there. Haven't had a problem in Colville. Sometimes there is an issue of water
Spokane County, the bees like to go to someone's horse trough. We can reorient bees to it. He said
one time his bees found an above ground pool four houses down and his bees found it within twelve
hours. The only way he could stop it was to go tarp the pool and within four hours they were back to
getting water where they belonged. They love chlorinated water but they can be retrained.
Commissioner Graham said she had read honeybees were declining, would certification and
registration help to monitor the health of the hives. Mr. Tate answered originally the state maintained
a list of people who had honey bees so spray applicators were obligated notify the owners when
spraying would be occurring. However that no longer happens, so the money now is used for
education and honey bee research purposes. Recently$30,000 was allocated to WSU for cold storage
to mites in commercial operations. The Honey Commission allocates the money for education and
research. WSU has a lab which will test bees if a beekeeper has a concern and will test them for free
for diseases or sickness to try and protect the bees. We even send in bees from Northern Idaho
because it affects us here. Commissioner Stay asked Mr. Tate if he was a commercial beekeeper.
Mr. Tate said he is a commercial beekeeper and does produce honey as well as commercial
pollination. He said he does all the pollination for Greenbluff.
Darrell Dirstine, 10806 E Mission: Mr. Dirstine said since beekeeping was about honey, he brought
some of some and some spoons. Commissioner Graham noted for the record she was allergic to
honey but did not feel it would impact her decisions on approving this ordinance. Mr. Dirstine said if
you taste local honey it tastes different. He said he has been keeping bees for about 35 years. He said
he had a tree he thought was a flowering plum tree because it never had any plums. The first year he
02-26-15 Planning Commission Minutes Page 6 of 10
had bees, it was loaded with plums. The bees provide a very beneficial service. Jerry mentioned
about the cost, and it is expensive.. It is recommended you have two colonies in case something goes
wrong with one you can restart it with the other one. If a beekeeper is starting out he is going to
spend $770-$800 and he has even got an extractor to spin his honey out yet. Those can be hundreds of
dollars. There is a benefit to the neighbors for their gardens. He is sure it one of the problems you
are trying to elevate, if you have problems with neighbors. He said he had a lot which is 325 x 60, it
is long and skinny. He said the old code was not really very practical, because it said you had to have
them 25 feet from any fence. He said he had a shop in the back and the neighbor in the back loved
having the bees. He said to have them 10 feet from the back fence, and the back of his shop was the
best place for them, but according to the code, he had to put them in a different spot, near his garden.
This was closer to a neighbor who did not appreciate the bees. He said sometimes it is not a one size
fits all where you place your bees. . He said one of the things the bees are breed to be gentleness. He
said it is not recommended you don't wear protective gear, and when he first had them, he would go
out every day. He said he hates putting on a bee suit, it is hot. Normally he just uses a hat and a
smoker and he might get stung once a year. If it is a nice warm day he will, but if it isn't nice he
won't go out unless he has to,they are not interested in him. They are going about their business and
doing what they do. He said he felt it should be a reasonable bee code. What he has felt for a lone
time was not reasonable was the 40,000 square foot requirement because that basically that eliminated
90% of the people, because how many people have an acre. How many people who have an acre,
want to have bees. He aid he does not have them at home anymore because it is not legal to do that.
He said the biggest problem with bees, is yellow jackets. If you are out in the garden and you see a
honey bee and you try and touch it, it will just move over. They will not retaliate and try to come
back and sting you, they are not like a yellow jacket. He said as a practical example, he has one
neighbor who does not appreciate the bees, and they have a beautiful yard, and he does not
understand it. But at the time you had to have a six foot fence all around your yard, and he had to
move his bees. One of them had a swimming pool with young kids, and he asked them if the bees
were bothering his pool. The neighbor said no, because if they had been he would have moved them
no problem. He said that neighbors kids would come up and watch the hives sometimes. The
neighbor in the back liked the bees, but his wife was allergic the bees, and he offered to move them
immediately. The neighbor said no, they liked them for the garden. The neighbor said his wife new
how to deal with the allergies. He said one person should not be able to dictate for the whole
neighborhood. He would encourage the Commissioners to go over when Mr. Tate gets his bees and
observe, He said they are all interested in their own thing. He said he was not a member of the bee
club(IEBA) Commissioner Wood asked if Mr. Dirstine thought registration was a good thing. . Mr.
Dirstine answered he would not have a problem taking the test, he has been doing it for a long time.
He said he did not know if it should be a requirement. Commissioner Wood asked if there was a
reason he did not join the association. He responded that it seemed he was always to busy, and the
association has changed, it used to be a little bit different, there is more education being done now
along with it. He said most beekeepers want to be educated. He said if you have eight beekeepers
you will have ten opinions. He wanted to comment on the flyaway barrier or fences. He said it
would be an extreme detriment if you had to put a six foot fence within so many feet of your colony.
If it changes so he can have them back at home, he would have them in the garden and when you
want to rototill your garden If you have a fence they will go over it. He has observed them and how
the bees come out of the hive and will fly up but then they circle around and then fly in many
different directions depending on where the nectar sources are. The bees don't all go in one direction.
Commissioner Anderson asked, so you are not certified or registered according the program which
was explained to us, but you are also a very experienced beekeeper, but would he would recommend
beginners should join and take the test to be certified. Mr. Dirstine answered he would recommend it
because most new people have so many questions, are so interested in gaining knowledge and finding
supplies. Commissioner Anderson said you use the term most, that leaves the possibility that some
won't and at least if it was a requirement, at least we were sure all of them would take the test. This
02-26-15 Planning Commission Minutes Page 7 of 10
is what he was thinking about. Commissioner Kelley asked, to the best of his knowledge in the time
you have been in beekeeping and in the beekeeping industry, do you carry liability insurance or does
anyone he knows. Mr. Dirstine answered not that he know of. Mr. Kelley asked if he would be
opposed to a requirement to carry liability insurance in case someone got stung and they went into
anaphylactic shock. Mr. Dirstine said one of the issues, and he is not an attorney, and those in the
club have probably researched it more, but it is pretty hard to tell who's bee it is. He doesn't have
bees at his home any longer, and when his locust tress come on, they are loaded with bees. Mr.
Kelley what kind of liability the beekeeper felt they had if a neighbor who might be allergic got stung
and had medical issues. Mr. Distrine said he is not aware that anyone around his bees has gotten
stung. He said it is kind of eminent domain. He said he can remember the first time he got stung, he
was about five years old and he stepped on a clover and it had a honey bee on it. Just because you
have a colony with a lot of bees doesn't mean there are not yellow jackets there. Because the yellow
jackets will be trying to get into the colony too. They try and get in and get a bite of brood for the
protein. He said sometimes you have other peoples bees trying to get to get into your bees. Maybe
they don't have any honey at home and they looking to see what they can find and take some of it.
Mr. Driskell stated he did not know if that was something which should be in the consideration of the
Planning Commission or the City. Who's bees they are and were they there because of the hive, or
because someone planted flowers. Because if someone planted a lot of flowers they would attract
bees. Mr. Kelley said he was not trying to infer that the Commission should put that in `there' but he
was trying to get at what their liabilities are for the beekeeper in reference to their neighbors. If the
neighbors get stung and or if their swarm comes over there, do they feel there is any liability on their
part, and that is what I wanted to hear. Mr. Driskell asked Mr. Kelley if he was asking if there was
legal liability or if there was a sense of liability.
Commissioner Graham asked Mr. Mumau as president of the IEBA, regarding the certifications, do
the tests have to be taken through the association. Mr. Mumau said there are three levels of
certification, and a person could to the state website, get a booklet, get the test, take it and send it in
and get certified that way. State registration is based on how many hives a person has, 1-5 hives is
$5.00, 6-10 hives is $10.00 and so on. Commissioner Graham confirmed with Mr. Driskell that it
was not necessary to add language to the code it was a requirement to register with the state because it
was already a state requirement.
Ms. Barlow said she wanted to clarify the flyaway barrier as it is related to the intent of the code. The
rational for adding in a flyaway barrier to the proposed code was not to manipulate the bees for the
beekeeper but for the protection of neighbors and to cause the bees to fly up and across the neighbors
yards. Commissioner Anderson said it made more sense reading it from that view point.
Chair Stoy closed the public hearing at 7:33 p.m.
Commissioner Graham moved to approve CTA-2015-0001(C) as presented.
Commissioner Anderson would like to change the wording from adequate water supply to continuous
water supply. Commissioner Phillips said the bees don't need water in the winter. He said
continuous leads it to mean running water all the time. Commissioner Anderson said adequate allows
for interpretation and he would like to remove that option. Commissioner Wood comments that
continuous would mean to him the water supply would need to be fed by a faucet or a hose. Ms.
Barlow suggested the word constant. Commissioner Stoy commented a constant water supply would
not be necessary in the winter either. He suggested to strike the work adequate and leave it at that.
Commissioner Wood said he did not have a problem with the word adequate. Commissioner Graham
asked what the City of Spokane's code used. Ms. Hamois said they used adequate water supply.
There was consensus to leave the language as it was proposed.
Commissioner Kelley raised his concerns regarding how he did not feel the beekeepers were taking
any personal liability if a neighbor who was allergic was stung by a bee. Commissioner Graham said
02-26-15 Planning Commission Minutes Page 8 of 10
she felt the beekeepers had taken responsibility for their bees. Commissioner Anderson said in his
research he found a bee can fly up to five miles from the hive in search of pollen so it would be
difficult to determine the ownership of a bee. Commissioner Stoy commented his son is allergic to
bees and his family has an EpiPen with them at all times in the case of an emergency, but he does
understand there is a possibility a person would not know if someone was allergic. He said he felt
both parties needed to be a little bit responsible. Ms. Barlow stated beekeeping is allowed currently,
and the City is aware beekeeping is happening in conditions which do not meet our standards. We are
now trying to put in place the most reasonable set of standards which will protect everyone's
interests, this is the best you can do. In order to try and protect the neighbors we try and put in
reasonable, enforceable standards which will protect both the beekeepers and the adjacent property
owners. Commissioner Kelley offered we are now taking beekeeping and moving it from the
countryside, or an acre of land, and putting it in regular neighborhoods. He did not feel this was in
the best interest of a lot of people. Commissioner Kelley said if you were allergic to bees and
someone moves in next door and gets a hive, you should not have to deal with the extra opportunities
to get stung. Commissioner Stoy asked Mr. Driskell if there was any liability in regard to bees at the
state level. Mr. Driskell stated he was not aware of anything at the state level and bees are
everywhere. It would not be like they were coming from one place. Having a hive would create a
greater concentration then would otherwise have been next door but he did not feel it created a
liability situation for someone who was keeping them. From a legal stand point it would not be
something the City would address. Commissioner Kelley still felt the acre standards were good,
since he didn't feel anyone should have to have bees move in next to them if they didn't want them.
Commissioner Anderson said he would support adding a requirement for the beekeeper to be
certified. Commissioner Wood agreed. He liked the fact the beekeeper would be getting education
and taking the responsibility seriously. Commissioner Scott liked the idea of having a certified
beekeeper next door. She asked if the code enforcement officer would be able to contact the IEBA to
assist with enforcement. Ms. Barlow answered if the City received a complaint the code enforcement
officer would ask to see evidence of the certification. Mr. Driskell stated all compliance actions he
has been aware of, none of them have been about bees. There was consensus from the Commission
to require certification of the beekeepers and staff will return with language which would be
appropriate.
The vote on the motion to approve CTA-2015-0001 as presented, was zero in favor, seven against,
motion failed.
Commissioner Wood moved to approve CTA-2015-0001 as proposed but adding language which
requires beekeepers to be certified. The vote on this motion was six in favor, one against, motion
passed, Commissioner Kelley dissenting.
Discussion: Spokane Transit Authority,Comprehensive Plan discussion regarding bus benches:
Spokane Transit Authority Planner Kathleen Weinland gave a presentation to the Commission
regarding their update to their comprehensive plan and their policy framework regarding bus benches.
She said she was doing stakeholder outreach to get input regarding bus stops and bus benches. She
discussed the requirements for benches and shelters at a stop and what the challenges are to providing
those. Commissioner Anderson asked who makes the decision about where the bus sign goes,
sometimes it is not the only sign on the pole and it can get confusing. Commissioner Phillips
commented it would be easier at times if the bus stop was in the middle of the block instead of at a
crosswalk because at times he cannot tell if the person is waiting to cross the street or wait for the bus.
Commissioner Wood said it would be easier as a vehicle following a bus if they pulled out of traffic
to make a pick up. Commissioner Anderson wondered if the bus benches with the seats in them
might not fit everyone.
02-26-15 Planning Commission Minutes Page 9 of 10
Commissioner Anderson moved to extend the meeting to 9:15 p.m. The vote on the motion was seven
in favor, zero against, motion passed.
Planning Commission Finding of Fact for CPA-2015-0001 and CPA-2015-0002 —
Comprehensive Plan Amendments:
Ms. Barlow said the findings for CPA-2015-0001, are for an amendment located along Nora Ave.
Since Commissioner Kelly had recused himself from this amendment, he left the room while this item
was being discussed. Ms. Barlow stated the document reflected no findings based on the Planning
Commission's decision. Commissioner Scott asked why there were no findings. Mr. Driskell stated
since three of the Commissioners had voted the amendment met the SVMC, and three of the
Commissioners voted it had not met the code,then the only findings which could be produced is what
had been done procedurally. Commissioner Anderson moved to approve the Findings for CPA-2015-
0001 as presented. The vote on this motion was six to zero, motion passed and Commissioner Kelly
returned to the room.
Ms. Barlow presented the findings for CPA-2015-0002, an amendment located at the intersection of
Mission Ave. and Flora Rd. Ms. Barlow shared since the close of the public hearing staff received a
letter signed by 25 surrounding property owners asking for the proposal to be denied. This
information cannot be part of the record because the record is closed, but would be forwarded to the
Council for an ordinance first reading. Commissioner Graham moved to approve the Findings for
CPA-2015-0002 as presented. The vote on this motion is seven in favor, zero against, motion passed.
GOOD OF THE ORDER:
Commissioner Graham asked to clarify some things from the Planning Short Course she attended. She
said it was mentioned the Planning Commission members could join APA. Ms. Barlow explained APA
was the American Planning Association. Ms. Horton said the City does have a membership to the APA
for the Planning Commissioners, it was be updated to reflect the new members and she would be
receiving information before too long. She said one of the speakers mentioned a minority report when
there is a division. Ms. Barlow said our Planning Commission does not do this. She said when our
Planning Commission makes a decision and it is then forwarded to the Council, it goes as the one
decision. She said although our minutes are not verbatim, they are very thorough and do reflect the
discussion of what happened to arrive at their decision. Mr. Driskell commented a minority report
suggests dissention among the Commission which there usually isn't, and he also thought this subject was
covered in the Planning Commission Rules of Procedure. Ms. Graham said the last subject was regarding
a comment a speaker made about regular meetings with the City Council. Mr. Driskell said this isn't a
practice of the City either. He explained if the City Council and the Planning Commission met regularly
and talked about subjects, it would give the impression the Commission was just doing whatever the
Council wanted them to do and they were not judging items on their own ideas. This was not an
impression we would want to give the public so it isn't something we do.
ADJOURNMENT: There being no other business, Commissioner Graham moved to adjourn the meeting
at 9:06 p.m. This motion was passed unanimously.
Joe Stoy, Chairperson Date signed
Deanna Horton, Secretary
02-26-15 Planning Commission Minutes Page 10 of 10